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have just entered room "Nelson and Jeanette." JeanetteFan1: oh dear JeanetteFan1: i am tv burned JeanetteFan1: hehe DIXC has left the room. JHami828 has left the room. SokorraK has entered the room. LadyJoots: Any Nelson and Jeanette involved with that? Dugan EK has entered the room. LadyJoots: :-D JeanetteFan1: we lost two LadyJoots: Can't get burned out on them JeanetteFan1: of course JeanetteFan1: rose marie JeanetteFan1: they had the golf at lake tahoe JeanetteFan1: soooooo JeanetteFan1: that got me going SokorraK: Tonight's topic is Maytime btw JeanetteFan1: lol SokorraK: :-) JeanetteFan1: ahhhh LadyJoots: Thanks, Jessi... I had no clue ;-) JHami828 has entered the room. SokorraK: I hope people got my reminder but I wasn't sure:-) JeanetteFan1: i thought that was it JHami828: There I am. Some times when I get the message about the chat, AOL kicks me off. JeanetteFan1: me too JeanetteFan1: grrrrr LadyJoots: Awww JeanetteFan1: ginny they changed bravenet JeanetteFan1: they CLAIM it has improvemnets LadyJoots: Really? What did they do to it? LadyJoots: Oh wow, I'll have to try that out JeanetteFan1: i am not sue JeanetteFan1: sure LadyJoots: Jessi, invite RoseVictory :-) JeanetteFan1: they said something about archives LadyJoots: *looks angellic* JeanetteFan1: did maytime win any awards? JeanetteFan1: i think jeanette won one DIXC has entered the room. JeanetteFan1: O:-) JeanetteFan1: hi rich JeanetteFan1: :-) LadyJoots has left the room. LadyJoots has entered the room. LadyJoots has left the room. LadyJoots has entered the room. Dugan EK: I have down in my book that Maytime got a nomination for best score, but no wins -- but remember, 1937 was a fantastic year for films. The competition was fierce -- and it wasn't an original score. JeanetteFan1: thats true DIXC: Computer froze. Had to start over. Thanks. Hi everyone. Thanks for getting me in:-) LadyJoots: No problem, Dick JeanetteFan1: and the whole 1930s for that matter DIXC: We are under Torna:'(do threats. So don't be suprosed if I leave you all suddenly. SokorraK: ok JeanetteFan1: ahhh JeanetteFan1: ok SokorraK: We are having problems aren't we DIXC: Rough year everywhere. At times.:-[ SokorraK: :-) LadyJoots: Yeah, we are... I'm not on AIM... do you think you could invite RoseVictory over? I'm on AOL JHami828: Hope your weather calms down , Dick. SokorraK: ok LadyJoots: Thanks :-D JeanetteFan1: me too JeanetteFan1: good luck DIXC: Maytime one of the greatest musicals. JHami828: Jeanette really did sparkle as a young woman in Maytime! I love the hat she wears when she goes to eat lunch with "Paul". LadyJoots: AOL changed it... you used to be able to do that LadyJoots: Yes, it was, Dick. RoseVictory has entered the room. LadyJoots: Sorry, Victoria... ;-) Welcome! LadyJoots: I should always go on AIM and I was just too lazy! JHami828: Hi, Victoria! JHami828: 8-) SokorraK: :-) JeanetteFan1: hi victoria SokorraK: Ok, I will use Grandma's aim for the transcripts SokorraK: Does anyone have the original copy of Maytime? JHami828: Maytime showed that Nelson and Jeanette could sing and dance (together)! Dugan EK: Do you mean the color version that was abandoned? SokorraK: yeah SokorraK: The script JHami828: Would someone have been able to make a video tape of the color version? Was it shown on TV? SokorraK: I don't think it made it past filming SokorraK: There may be stills but no film out there Dugan EK: Oh, the script -- Ginny copied out much of it on her visit to the Motion Picture Academy Library -- I'm glad they abandoned it. JHami828: Oh...you want to find out about the script. SokorraK: yeah LadyJoots: No, no... that was Mary ;-) JHami828: Did Nelson live in that version? SokorraK: I think it is interesting what they changed LadyJoots: I'm the IMAA girl... :-D SokorraK: :-) Dugan EK: The color version was only just started when it was abandoned. It had a script about the Civil War. It was hoped that when Turner took over the MGM vaults, that some footage from it might be found , but alas, no. Several people look LadyJoots: There's also a copy of what the original story line was on my website from a magazine... JHami828: EEK...can't imagine a Civil War version. DIXC: The first version could never reach the success of the final touch. Dugan EK: looked long and hard, eager to lay hands on it, but it just isn't there. It probably no longer exists. Even if it wasn't deliberately destroyed to save storage money at MGM, it would have deteriorated by now if the nitrate stock was Dugan EK: wasn't preserved in ideal climate conditions. LadyJoots: Apparently, I need to fix the page though. LadyJoots: http://www.reeljewels.com/eddy/Maytime.htm RoseVictory: Hi, I was just posting a response to the question about M'appari. I arrived. LadyJoots: Yay! :-) RoseVictory: I know I asked about maytime footage before, but I'm interested now in footage of Nelson singing Little Workaday world... I can just imagine that production number SokorraK: I never heard of it Dugan EK: Me too. Footage is not known to exist, alas! RoseVictory: (wailing) LadyJoots: Yeah... we have the lyrics though... and precious few pictures... RoseVictory: what picturs Dugan EK: Still photos. RoseVictory: of the number? Dugan EK: Yes. DIXC: They started over realizing the other could not sell when the producer died RoseVictory: well... tell me more RoseVictory: what do you mean the producer died and they could not sell?? LadyJoots: Irving Thalberg JHami828: Interesting Ginny! Dugan EK: I don't know that the decision to start over was based on any evaluation of the potential success of the first version. Rather, I think it was like dogs marking their territory -- the new producer wanted the film to be HIS film. DIXC: Story bad and a new director was needed RoseVictory: Sorry, I know we're supposed to be discussing maytime Dugan EK: Was the director changed? If so, I'd forgotten. That would probably have been a scheduling problem, not that someone wasn't "competent." RoseVictory: Goulding LadyJoots: DIXC is talking about Maytime ;-) DIXC: Irving Thalberg died RoseVictory: I know... Dugan EK: Ah, yes -- well, Goulding was a top director. He probably had a commitment to start another film that was ready to shoot and so Leonard was brought in. RoseVictory: I got distracted by wierd stuff going on with the screen. LadyJoots: Ahhhhh RoseVictory: Do you notice a difference between Leonard and Van Dyke as directors? SokorraK: From what I heard, Mayer was the one who decided to change the plot line Dugan EK: YES! Generally, Leonard was a mediocre director, a hack. Van Dyke was highly competent, aimed for humor, kept the film going along smoothly and quickly. RoseVictory: So the success of Maytime is not due to the director? RoseVictory: That would be Dugan EK: No, not in my mind. I attribute the success to excellent script, editing, musical direction -- and performances. DIXC: Directors don't sing RoseVictory: Well, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that Maytime works in spite of a mediocre director. Dugan EK: Supposedly (according to press releases), Leonard was ideal for directing musicals because he had been a singer. But I might on the same basis be ideal for directing war movies because I lived through World War II. JHami828: Well, I don't like the Civil War theme for this movie. I'm glad it was changed. JeanetteFan1: me too Dugan EK: Yes, and Jeanette had a bunch of onery brothers -- JHami828: I don't think I'd want Jeanette to be a Southern Belle (accent). DIXC: Would not have worked for our two singers and their songs. JHami828: It would have to be like that accent she had for Girl of the Golden West. MamaLion27: testing this to make sure this can work Dugan EK: It MIGHT have worked -- Goulding was a very good director. JHami828: What year was Gone With the Wind made? LadyJoots: 1939 Dugan EK: But it would have been "just okay" -- not inspired. Dugan EK: GWTW was released in late 1939 -- had been a long time in the making. JHami828: So, there would've been no major competition with Maytime if it had the Civil War theme. JHami828: I mean no competition between Maytime and Gone With the Wind. JHami828: As far as theme went... LadyJoots: Jezebel was made in 1938... I know there were more than that... there had to be. DIXC: There were many pictures made in those times, each year. Dugan EK: The whole nation was Civil War mad -- speculation about casting GWTW. Also that Bette Davis movie with Henry Fonda in which she wears a red dress to the debutante's ball -- I forget the name. RoseVictory: wasn't that Jezebel? LadyJoots: Yeah ;-) JHami828: I don't think Nelson's character could've been as fun and "free spirited" if he'd been in the American South. I like the European setting when Paul and Marcia meet. JeanetteFan1: yup JeanetteFan1: they did do that lovely number JeanetteFan1: carry me back RoseVictory: and talked in dialect JHami828: True DIXC: Where is "MAMALION27" LadyJoots: That's right (it's tradition) and Nelson sings my name. JHami828: Yes, where is Dorothy? JeanetteFan1: O:-) DIXC: She was here for one moment. LadyJoots: Jessi is her granddaughter and is at her house ;-) JHami828: Ah DIXC: OH!=-O RoseVictory: why is the american south taken as the example of american-ness when neither paul or marcia are from the south? JeanetteFan1: hmmmm JeanetteFan1: good point RoseVictory: or if they are, why do they sound like they're from the North-east ? Dugan EK: She confesses to being from Virginia -- JHami828: I thought Marcia said she was from Virginia?? LadyJoots: Viriginia is south... they both are from there JeanetteFan1: i love in good old new york city LadyJoots: ;-) JeanetteFan1: live JeanetteFan1: hehe JeanetteFan1: sorry LadyJoots: LOL :-D JeanetteFan1: a borough to be truthful RoseVictory: but wasn't she joking when she says she's from Virginia?? Dugan EK: I don't think so -- JHami828: I couldn't tell. LadyJoots: I don't think so, either... RoseVictory: she originally denied it JHami828: I just assumed she meant it. RoseVictory: well, as an opera singer she could mask an accent anyway JHami828: True JHami828: What are you all's favorite parts of Maytime? (You all is Southern.) RoseVictory: How would Paul know that she was from Virginia until she said so? Why would he make a big show of cooking her Virginia ham and eggs before asking her where she was from? JHami828: :-) JeanetteFan1: i love the duet MamaLion27: I think she was trying to keep things impersonal but in the end she told Paul JeanetteFan1: carry me back RoseVictory: Does anyone know the original stage plot of Maytime? RoseVictory: Maybe it's a holdover from that. Dugan EK: Oh, I think he HAD the Virginia ham already -- didn't yet know she was from there. JHami828: OH...that is so true...I never thought of that...how did Paul know she was from Virginia and would like the ham and eggs? RoseVictory: No I know that, but quelle coincidence@ MamaLion27: He was cooking the ham and eggs because he was from Virginia. Dugan EK: Original stage plot is three generations of lovers in old Nieu Amsterdam (aka New York). JHami828: I LOVE the fair. It was wonderful. RoseVictory: But they sing "Jump Jim Crow" JHami828: They seemed to have such fun singing and dancing at the fair. JeanetteFan1: ahhhh RoseVictory: or is that just stylish minstrelsy Dugan EK: Yes -- the Bois de Boulogne -- full of eucalyptus trees! JHami828: Too funny...when they forget little details like the eucalyptus trees. JHami828: When did they sing "Jump Jim Crow"? DIXC: The fair demonstrates the quality of the two stars. The way they acted sang and had so much fun. Dugan EK: According to Hollywood, the eucalyptus is native to Sherwood Forest, the Vienna Woods, Tarzan's African jungle -- JHami828: Not Paris! RoseVictory: Songs from the original stage show: Gypsy Song, Selling Gowns, Go away, Girls, Jump, Jim Crow, Will you remember, the road to paradise, dancing will keep you young, in our little home sweet home, it's a windy day on the battery JeanetteFan1: the road to paradie is lovely JeanetteFan1: they did it in deep in my heart Dugan EK: I think it followed NYC through the centuries -- I've never gotten hold of a script. JHami828: Well, was the original stage show based on the Southern theme? Dugan EK: There was a silent film version with Clara Bow, alas now lost. RoseVictory: well it does seem strange to have minstrelsy in an operetta Dugan EK: No, the original had nothing to do with the south. JHami828: Oh...well I don't understand the minstrel connection either, then. JeanetteFan1: that goes foe me too joani Dugan EK: Minstrel shows were part of Americana for more than a century. I just acquired a 1951 film in which the director/producer rounded up all the surviving minstrel players and had them do a show on film. JHami828: Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney (sp) did minstrel shows in some of their movies. Dugan EK: And, despite claims that blackface grew out of a racial statement about slavery, the Greek theatre used blackface in 400 BC. RoseVictory: Clara Bow was in the 1923 version of Maytime years before she was a big star. It also starred the silent movie actor Harrison Ford LadyJoots: Yeah... unfortunately the African American community doesn't know that. Dugan EK: Who is no relation to the current Harrison Ford. RoseVictory: Right. RoseVictory: ! JHami828: I do cringe when I see those minstrel shows. I have to remind myself that was the time period. JHami828: A silent version of Maytime. Was it good? RoseVictory: was for a small-time studio Dugan EK: Yes -- it presents a difficult problem for someone who believes in social justice but also in theatrical history. LadyJoots: Hee hee... should have seen me when I saw an Aunt Jemima figurine in New York... I couldn't believe it. JHami828: Ginny, I'm only 46 and I can remember racial jokes and stories and prejudice. I'm glad attitudes have changed. Dugan EK: I know several Black people who collect such things -- a kind of spiritual "liberation" to be able to categorize such unconscious (or conscious) stereotypes as collectables. JeanetteFan1: i still cringe LadyJoots: Really? I was beyond shocked and the more I saw them in the antique stores... the more upset I got. JeanetteFan1: the comment in rose marie JHami828: Comment? LadyJoots: It still goes on Joani, just in different ways... :-( RoseVictory: Unlikely the 1923 version was very good: the studio, preferred pictures, "featured a small roster of minor stars and shoestring budgets" JeanetteFan1: would offend our natvie americans i think JHami828: It does go on...but not as bad as it used to be. JeanetteFan1: about the native festival Dugan EK: I just got a fascinating documentary on the Amos & Andy TV show -- all Black cast, but driven off the air by the idea that somehow it ridiculed Black people. When I heard the radio program as a small child, I had no idea that Amos a LadyJoots: Yeah... :-) That's true RoseVictory: acc. to C.B.'s biographer David Stenn. Still tragic of its loss. Dugan EK: and Andy were Black. I thought they were just southern. JHami828: Amos and Andy weren't played by Black performers, though, were they? LadyJoots: Yeah, the were Dugan EK: On TV,yes. On radio, no. LadyJoots: Right LadyJoots: :-) Dugan EK: Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll (I may be misspelling.) JHami828: Ok JHami828: Well, what do you all REALLY think when Paul dies at the end? I guess it was realistic, but it broke my heart! Dugan EK: The TV show gave employement to a dozen very talented actors -- a pity it collided with an ill advised political correctness. But still I'm happy that people were becoming sensitive -- most of the portrayals of Blacks in early films Dugan EK: were outrageous! LadyJoots: I was traumatized... JeanetteFan1: well i hate to leave early JeanetteFan1: have a great week eeveryone Dugan EK: Anyone reading our alternate comments on different topics will become totally confused. JeanetteFan1: bye for now RoseVictory: What happened to Nazaroff after he killed Paul? JHami828: =-O Too true. JeanetteFan1 has left the room. JHami828: They didn't explain that...what happened to Nazaroff. DIXC: The script should have Barrymore comit suicide and our two go on in life and get married. JHami828: I wished Marcia had been able to stop him, but I'm not sure she would've been able to do that even if she made it there before Nazaroff shot Paul. Dugan EK: Yes, what DID happen to Nazaroff? Probably he was given a light sentence because he was defending his marriage from an intruder DIXC: Hewas disturbed by their love for each other. JHami828: Well, he knew Marcia was ready to leave him. Dugan EK: In Brazil, a man can murder his wife and serve no jail time if he says that she insulted his manhood -- by arguing with him, not feeding him on time, etc. JHami828: Hummmmm RoseVictory: But France is not Brazil. DIXC: Should we go to Brazil, boys: ha, ha. RoseVictory: oh , wait it happened in New York JHami828: =-O DIXC: 8-) RoseVictory: DIXC are you male? DIXC: :-D DIXC: 8-) DIXC: 8-) RoseVictory: that emoticon is not gender specific LadyJoots: ROFL RoseVictory: what's the story, infinity-eyes? LadyJoots: He is, Vicki... ;-) JHami828: I just heard that a lady said to Winston Churchill, "If I were your wife, I would poison your tea". He replied, "If I were your husband, I would drank it." RoseVictory: ok. thanks. JHami828: I mean DRINK DIXC: Just wantedto get your attentionO:-) RoseVictory: there's an answer to that one. JHami828: That was my Southern accent coming through. Dugan EK: That story is also told about George Bernard Shaw -- RoseVictory: (Winston's line) RoseVictory: there's a response to winnie's line. JHami828: Bet that's attributed to more than one person! DIXC: And... RoseVictory: Well, I wish the man would drink it and get it over with already. JHami828: :-) RoseVictory: But such things would never happen in a J/N movie. JHami828: Too funny. Bottom line for me...about Maytime...is that it was more realistic than many of the romantic movies...since Nelson did die in the end. Dugan EK: Yes, wisely they decided against having J&N commit suicide at the end of Rose Marie like the Indian lovers that preceeded them! LadyJoots: *shudders* JHami828: =-O RoseVictory: although it (suicide) is sort of presaged by the Romeo & Juliet sequence. RoseVictory: in Rose-Marie Dugan EK: I'm not sure what the position of The Code was on suicide, but I bet it was not in favor of it -- allowed it only for bad guys! JHami828: I see...murder was OK...suicide was not. Dugan EK: After the German novel "Werther" was a huge hit about 1840 and the hero committed suicide, there was a huge wave of suicides among young people in Europe. RoseVictory: I don't think suicide would be favorable to the code. Can't think of any suicides during the code DIXC: Duets in heaven would be tough to hear. RoseVictory: except from books RoseVictory: ie Anna Karenina. JHami828: But, they did duet in heaven at the end. :-) RoseVictory: But she committed adultery and had to suffer Dugan EK: Agnes Morehead jumps out a window at the end of that Bogart-Bacall movie -- I'm bad on titles today. RoseVictory: The Big Sleep? RoseVictory: or.. To have or have not? Dugan EK: No -- the one in SF. RoseVictory: those are the only two I can think of DIXC: Sorry my time is up. Thanks for the fun evening. LadyJoots: Awww... Goodbye, Dick! RoseVictory: bye! DIXC: Bye:-) LadyJoots: Take care ;-) RoseVictory: nice to have aman around the house JHami828: My time is up, too. I had fun chatting. LadyJoots: Bye, Joani! LadyJoots: :-) JHami828: Dick, you keep us on our toes. RoseVictory: keep us proper ladies JHami828: Bye all. Bye, Ginny!! DIXC: Wear high heels DIXC: Bye. JHami828: ROFL.... JHami828 has left the room. DIXC has left the room. Dugan EK: He escapes from San Quentin, has plastic surgery, meets her in South America at the end. Ah, DARK PASSAGE! LadyJoots: There you go ;-) Dugan EK: Well, have a great week! (My Pakistani house guests fly away Tuesday -- then back to work.) RoseVictory: Ah, I've seen that one too but didn t like it either LadyJoots: You, too! LadyJoots: Bye everyone! :-) Dugan EK: Because they shot it here in SF, it is much fun to watch (for me). Dugan EK: Bye -- Dugan EK has left the room. LadyJoots has left the room. RoseVictory: bye RoseVictory has left the room Posted August 5, 2003 |