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You
have just entered room "NelsonAndJeanette."
MamaLion27
has entered the room.
GarlandGrl
: O:-)
Dugan EK
: Greetings--
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Hey Grandma...remember to do the log thing just in case
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Hi all
GarlandGrl
: Hello :-)
MamaLion27
: Hi, everyone!
DIXC
has entered the room.
MamaLion27
: I am trying to do that,Jessi.
GarlandGrl
: Hi Dorothy :-) Hi Dick!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: :-)
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Hi Dick
DIXC
: :-)
DIXC
: You found me. Thanks.:-D
GarlandGrl
: ;-)
GarlandGrl
: Well, how are all of you this evening?
MamaLion27
: Great! The Steelers won!
DIXC
: We are fine here.
GarlandGrl
: I'm a traitor... I hope the Angels win tonight... :-)
MamaLion27
: So do I, Ginny!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: For once, they win
GarlandGrl
: :-D
GarlandGrl
: Well shall we get started with a little bit of Smilin' Through?
Lady
Bethanie 1
: This is a film i know NOTHING about except Jeanette plays two parts
and looks great with dark hair
GarlandGrl
: Awww ;-) You should see it... I think it's on TCM tomorrow
actually...
GarlandGrl
: I like Eleanor's question of spiritualism of the time, the need to
be able to communicate with those no longer with us during war time...
MamaLion27
: It was a third filming of that story..Shearer and Howard did it and
before that Talmadge and the first Harrison Ford.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: There were more then one Harrison Ford?
MamaLion27
: Yep and no relation.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: another tidbit I never knew.
GarlandGrl
: How do you think the versions compare? I've only seen bits of the
Norma version...
MamaLion27
: I haven't seen all of that one, either, Ginny.
GarlandGrl
: Hmm...
Dugan EK
: The Norma Shearer version wasn't available for a long time. I had
assumed that a great actor like Fredric March must have done a better job
than Gene with the blacksheep ne'er do well -- when I finally saw it,
March made a dog's din
Dugan EK
: dinner of the rôle, hamming it up like mad, sobbing and tearing his
hair while beating on his breast -- almost calesthenics.
Dugan EK
: Shearer, like Jeanette, totally lacked any Irish brogue. One cannot
be certain how Norma Talmadge spoke, it being silent.
MamaLion27
: Some roles just bring out the worst in even fine actors!
GarlandGrl
: What other characters do you really think make the Jeanette's
version stand out...
Dugan EK
: March was an uneven and "dangerous" actor. His passion and
willingness to risk all could easily take him over the top and produce a
ridiculous performance. Only with a strong director who could control him
did he do Oscar-worthy per
Dugan EK
: performances.
MamaLion27
: Brian Aherne and Ian Hunter do so well in that movie.
GarlandGrl
: I agree... I haven't seen much of Aherne in other films, but the two
I've seen, I've really enjoyed.
MamaLion27
: I went to see it because of Aherne. i never liked Gene, preferring
Richard Denning in the type of roles Gene usually did.
Dugan EK
: I think Ian Hunter is more successful at being convincing both young
and old. Aherne is a bit studied in his dodderingness (if there is such a
word.)
Dugan EK
: Has anyone else plotted how old Jeremy Wayne was when he sired
Kenneth, for Kenneth to be of age to fight in World War I? Quite old, past
50!
GarlandGrl
: LOL :-D
MamaLion27
: No, I never thought to add up those years.
GarlandGrl
: How about the theme of being able to communicate with those we lost?
I think there is another film after this one... The Ghost And Mrs. Muir
was out in 1947, I think...
MamaLion27
: I loved that one, too. I guess I'm a fool for ghost stories!
Dugan EK
: Even if we allow that Kenneth is 25, he would have been born in 1890
-- almost 30 years after Jeremy ran off. If we accept that Jeremy was 25,
then he was approximately 55 when Kenneth was born. Even older if Kenneth
is only 21 or s
Dugan EK
: or so.
GarlandGrl
: So am I, Dorothy! :-)
GarlandGrl
: And I'm right! *jumps up and down*
DIXC
: By the way; "Smiling Thru" is on TCM on Tuesday
at 7AM in Chicago.
MamaLion27
: I will try and tape it for you, Jessi.
GarlandGrl
: Ahhh... Thanks Dick!!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: which I think is 9am here in Pa
Dugan EK
: Yes, Ghost & Mrs. Muir. And an Abbott & Costello movie from
the 40s about the ghost of Revolutionary War characters in a haunted
house. But I wonder what works exist prior to WWI?
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Thanks
Dugan EK
: Ah. and the Topper series in the 1930s which became a TV series in
the 50s.
DIXC
: Probably 8 in the East and 5 in the west
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I know this is more contemperay but doesn't Kate and Leopold have
the same basic theme (I never saw it myself)
Dugan EK
: But still AFTER WWI.
GarlandGrl
: Not really... she goes back into time... ;-) I saw it...
MamaLion27
: That should be an interesting project for research. Are you talking
films, EK?
Dugan EK
: I'm wondering if there was any 19th C. literary or stage tradition
of ghostly lovers being reunited. Or was Smilin' Through the first play
using this theme?
Dugan EK
: I think Cathy & Heathcliff got together in the afterlife in the
1930s film, but don't think this is in the 19th C. novel.
MamaLion27
: Ghost stories, especially those where our loved ones help us from
the grave , certainly go back farther than WWI
Dugan EK
: Hamlet's father -- but what about lovers reunited when one dies and
the other dies years later? As the theme?
Dugan EK
: Another complaint I have about Smilin' Through -- WWI had a lot of
great "theme songs," but the film focuses on folk songs.
Probably because the WWI songs were still under copyright and MGM would
have had to pay royalties --
MamaLion27
: I can't think of one but I will certainly add that to my list of
need-to-knows.
GarlandGrl
: We'd really have to look into that... I can't think of anything off
hand, other than ghost stories you'd find in a compliation book of
regional histories.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Plus in Paperback romances
Dugan EK
: IF Smilin' Through (the play) was the first, it certainly started a
whole series of similarly-plotted films. Maytime for one! And Bitter
Sweet, both stage play and film.
MamaLion27
: And "Ghost"!
Dugan EK
: Yes -- used to this day.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: There is Sleepless in Seattle, although only for a brief moment when
he is watching the fireworks and his wife comes back for a second.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: But thats more now then "then"
GarlandGrl
: And Casper... hee hee
Dugan EK
: Casper isn't reunited with a dead love!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: that was a cool movie:-) I need to rent that again...haven't seen it
in a while.
GarlandGrl
: In the new film, the leading male was reunited with his dearly
departed wife...
GarlandGrl
: :-D
Dugan EK
: Did he die and join her?
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Didn't Casper fall for his daughter?
GarlandGrl
: He just talks to her... and she fades away and waits for him...
GarlandGrl
: Yeah
Lady
Bethanie 1
: thought so.
GarlandGrl
: :-D
Lady
Bethanie 1
: He gets to be a "real" boy for awhile at the dance
GarlandGrl
: That's right...
Dugan EK
: Okay -- ghosts as a theme -- from cave days. But one lover living on
and then strolling down the road to eternity with the dead lover years
later -- that's the theme I'm focusing on.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: OHHH.....
MamaLion27
: Did anyone check the crowd scene in the film and see Nelson?
Dugan EK
: I've never been able to spot him -- not even in a 35mm print in a
theatre.
GarlandGrl
: I have no idea where that is... I've never noticed it...
Dugan EK
: I think SOME people have rather vivid imaginations.
Dugan EK
: Supposedly in the wedding party scenes.
MamaLion27
: I see someone who looks like him now that we have a bigger screen.
MamaLion27
: No, in the scene where she is singing to the soldiers.
Dugan EK
: Do a frame capture, highlight the face, and send us all copies.
GarlandGrl
: About the WWI songs still being copyrighted... For Me and My Gal
used a LOT of them and it was only made a year later.
MamaLion27
: I wish I could..i am not that expert!
Dugan EK
: Oh, yes -- I remember that -- a tall blond in the back. On the big
screen, it is obviously not Nelson. From one angle it might be, but he
turns his head and it is definitely not.
MamaLion27
: By the way, what was asked about the scene with the goat?
Dugan EK
: Oh, I know! Does everyone else????
GarlandGrl
: Christine wanted to know about it... because she'd never seen the
film.
GarlandGrl
: :-D
GarlandGrl
: I brought it up, because I thought it was adorable...
Dugan EK
: At one moment, you can CLEARLY see the hand of the goat wrangler on
the shoulder of the beast, trying to keep it in the shot. Don't know why
they didn't reshoot -- but maybe no one spotted it until the dailys and it
was too late --
Dugan EK
: J is being especially adorable at that moment, so few in the
audience would notice -- except us who watch the same film 50 times and so
have time to notice things beyond the key focus.
GarlandGrl
: That's right!! :-) They're both cute!
GarlandGrl
: Okay...want to continue on to this or move to the Northwest?
MamaLion27
: I noticed that, too. The goat wanted to get the devil out of there.
And that was Jeanette's scene. However, I couldn't see any chemistry
between the two of them.
GarlandGrl
: How about when they're looking at the painting and she says
"This is romance."
DIXC
: I enjoyed Northwest
Dugan EK
: Elsa Lanchester is especially nice, not having to mug too much and
allowed to be sympathetic.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: So did I. I thought it was very good despite the sound problems
MamaLion27
: So did I ,Dick but the darn tape has poor audio.
Dugan EK
: And Joseph Schildkraut is a thoroughly detestable villain -- not
easy to do.
Dugan EK
: Are there tapes out there with bad audio? Too bad!!
MamaLion27
: I thought Hugo Haas did great work as the prince.
DIXC
: Balalaika also has poor sound on mine. Darn it!
MamaLion27
: All the commercial tapes have poor audio.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I think all the actors had chemistry that just made it just right.
It wasn't too western and wasn't too romantic storyline. There was a good
plot.
Dugan EK
: Lenore Ulric was a fascinating actress. There is a very sad story
about her.
MamaLion27
: My"Balalaika" is good but my tapes from TCM are better.
DIXC
: Ilona Massey is quite as good as J., or Risa
DIXC
: But not quite there
MamaLion27
: Tell the story,EK.
GarlandGrl
: It's harder for me to watch Nelson with Ilona Massey... hee hee...
sorry Dick! ;-) I like Jeanette and Rise better... there's something about
her that's cold to me, but I like her better in this movie than others.
Dugan EK
: She was a famous stage actress and did some film rôles including
the second female lead in "Camille" with Garbo. In her final
years, she was poor and sick, confined to a charity home in NYC. One day
on the TV came Camille. She point
DIXC
: Meant to print is "NOT"
Dugan EK
: pointed to her young self on the screen and said, "That's
me!" Nurses assumed she had gone gaga and sent her off to mental
ward.
DIXC
: Not much of a typist.
GarlandGrl
: Oooh ;-) That's okay! Then we're in agreement then :-D
DIXC
: SAD
MamaLion27
: That is so sad. I wonder if anyone thought to check up on her story.
GarlandGrl
: Oh my gosh!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Thats sad
Dugan EK
: The fact that the story is told means that someone found out. It is
too bad that so many performers end up destitute when they are old.
MamaLion27
: Yes, fame is often fleeting.
GarlandGrl
: Lets see... think Nelson was right for the part? That he could have
had more parts at this stage in the game, like this...?
DIXC
: Nelson and Jeanette often were suported by the best acrors the
studios had.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I think the part was Great for him.
Dugan EK
: I think he was right for the part -- but unlike today where Clint
Eastwood and (recently) John Wayne just went on and on in Western parts,
Nelson projected too mature an image for the current cowboy flicks.
MamaLion27
: Yes! He could ride a horse and he could sing while he was doing it.
And no one will dispute his effect on the ladies!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Ackkk,.....No more John Wayne. My dad watched him TOOO much
MamaLion27
: I will stop taping them for him,Jessi!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I liked his westerns but other westerns never appealed to me besides
Seven Brides and Westward the Women.
GarlandGrl
: Ha ha ha ;-) That's the way I feel about him too, Jessi... for the
same reason, except it was both parents!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Thanks!
DIXC
: Would not get much "good" music that only they could do
in Westerns.
Dugan EK
: Or Gary Cooper. The young Cooper on a horse made hearts beat faster,
those tight jeans on that hot bod. The old Cooper was believable as the
"Dying Cowboy" sort of thing. Inarticulate, unsophisticated. I
never felt that Nelson was e
Dugan EK
: was either.
GarlandGrl
: And the songs? :-)
MamaLion27
: Nelson could have upgraded Westerns!
Dugan EK
: Provincial opera houses in gold rush towns!!
Dugan EK
: He's a visiting opera star, brought by the gold barons, kidnapped by
bandits and considered a tender foot -- but he SHOWS THEM!!
GarlandGrl
: Okay... this is probably not the popular opinion here, but the
singing cowboy thing had been done and I know that he loved doing them,
but I would have liked to see something that would have brought more
sophisticated audiences.
DIXC
: Girl did come with some western edge.
Dugan EK
: MY plot would allow opera arias AND a western tune or two.
MamaLion27
: By the way, anyone notice most of Nelson's leading ladies had very
helpful maids to do their bidding?
Dugan EK
: Yes -- this did double duty for providing a "duenna" who
guarded the virginity of the maiden.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I liked the russian part of the movie. it was MACHO American Cowboy
saves Delicate american barmaid from teh evil clutches of a gunslinger.
MamaLion27
: But she gets the gunslinger in the end!
MamaLion27
: That is if you are talking about Girl!
Lady
Bethanie 1
: But he is not evil
Lady
Bethanie 1
: No......NO
Lady
Bethanie 1
: (northwest outpost = NO)
DIXC
: A savior
GarlandGrl
: Any favorite songs or comments on the music?
MamaLion27
: Raindrops On a Drum!
GarlandGrl
: Yeah! I liked Nearer And Dearer, too :-)
Lady
Bethanie 1
: I never paid much attention to the music placement so I can't tell
you which is my favorite
Dugan EK
: I didn
Dugan EK
: didn't care for any of the music.
DIXC
: Anything he sang I could like.
MamaLion27
: I just wish I had better audio on the video. I sent the first one
back but they told me all of them are like that.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: something must have happened during the dubbing
DIXC
: How well did it do in the box office?
MamaLion27
: Of course my favorite part is that kiss after the horse chase! I am
an incurable romantic!
GarlandGrl
: Not sure... since it wasn't an MGM film, it wasn't in the file I
found the other information at.
MamaLion27
: The reviews were lukewarm.
GarlandGrl
: Nelson invested in this film, didn't he?
MamaLion27
: No, he invested in Knickerbocker Holiday.
GarlandGrl
: Whoops :-D
GarlandGrl
: LOL
DIXC
: He did in Knickerbocker, but did he in this?
GarlandGrl
: I guess not... ;-)
MamaLion27
: I don't think so. Republic carried this one.
GarlandGrl
: Anything else anyone wants to add on this one?
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Nothing I can add, since I know nothing more:-)
Dugan EK
: I wish he'd finished his film career on a stronger film.
MamaLion27
: Just that it is worth viewing.
Dugan EK
: ANYTHING Nelson did is worth viewing.
MamaLion27
: I AGREE!
GarlandGrl
: Yeah.. :-)
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Are there any Requests to add to the topic poll for the next chat?
DIXC
: Beautiful voice!
GarlandGrl
: I made a poll, but I can change it a little before I post the
link... which will be the same actually.
GarlandGrl
: I added Monte Carlo... One Hour With You... and a few more, can't
remember for sure.
MamaLion27
: Perhaps we should touch on their recordings..J or N?
GarlandGrl
: That could be done too :-)
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Perhaps we could do thier non-US appearances on Radio and/or Tv
MamaLion27
: Another good subject!
DIXC
: Have to go. Bye everyone. Thanks for the Chat.:-)
Dugan EK
: Non-U.S. appearances on radio and TV?! Were there any?
DIXC
has left the room.
GarlandGrl
: The Australia thing?
GarlandGrl
: Hee hee... I don't know much about the subject...
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Well, didn't they appear on Aussie TV and Radio as well as Europe
Dugan EK
: Ah, yes -- Nelson in OZ. Did he do TV there?
MamaLion27
: Well, we could check on that.
Dugan EK
: This is an area I know nothing about --
MamaLion27
: Let's open it for discussion.
GarlandGrl
: Anything else? :-)
MamaLion27
: Ihave to go work on my website. See you all later.
GarlandGrl
: Good luck! Bye Dorothy!
Dugan EK
: Bye -- have a great week!
Dugan
EK has left the room.
MamaLion27
has left the room.
Lady
Bethanie 1
: Bye Ginny...I'm saving the chat now
Posted
on May 24, 2003 |