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You
have just entered room "Sweethearts chat."
GarlandGrl
has entered the room.
Dugan
EK has entered the room.
MamaLion27
has entered the room.
GarlandGrl
: Hiya
Beth
Kenobi
: Hi all
MamaLion27
: Hello, everyone!
MamaLion27
: I am glad you made it back home in time, Jessi!
Beth
Kenobi
: Yep!
GarlandGrl
: ;-)
Beth
Kenobi
: Tonight's topic is Nelson and Jeanette's Tv appearances.
Beth
Kenobi
: And I have a question for it
Beth
Kenobi
: Does anyone know why they didn't take teh pilot for Nelson's
Backyard?
Beth
Kenobi
: *the
MamaLion27
: No doubt they didn't get enough advertisers to sign on for it.
Dugan
EK has left the room.
GarlandGrl
: Yeah, I would assume the same...
GarlandGrl
: I still haven't seen it... gotta work on that one.
MamaLion27
: Often some very good programs can't seem to reach the important
demographics according to our ad geniuses.
GarlandGrl
: I think if Nelson really enjoyed television, he would have made
more appearances... I think part of the reason was that he liked a live
audience setting better.
MamaLion27
: He often made that clear..his concerts were his heart's desire!
GarlandGrl
: Yeah ;-)
DIXC
has entered the room.
GarlandGrl
: Hi Dick!
DIXC
: Thanks:-)
GarlandGrl
: You're welcome ;-)
MamaLion27
: Hi, Dick!
Beth
Kenobi
: Hi Dick
DIXC
: How are all of you?O:-)
Dugan
EK has entered the room.
GarlandGrl
: A little tired, but pretty good otherwise... :-) And you?
Dugan EK
: Sorry -- my computer crashed!!
GarlandGrl
: Ahhhh!
GarlandGrl
: Hee hee
DIXC
: It was cold today watching my granddaughter play soccer.
MamaLion27
: Contemptible manners! these computers should learn a little
etiquette!
Dugan EK
: I tried to go in through Yahoo which says our group has 16 members
but I wasn't one of them.
GarlandGrl
: Ah...
GarlandGrl
: Yikes!
GarlandGrl
: Anyway, Jessi was wondering why NE's Backyard didn't work out...
GarlandGrl
: :-D
MamaLion27
: It is getting quite cold here, too...that's Pittsburgh for those
of you in the West!
Dugan EK
: Probably only one in 50 pilots ever gets "picked up" --
DIXC
: It was a good show to me, but ....
Dugan EK
: I understand there is now a new network that broadcasts pilots
that never got contracts for more episodes!
DIXC
: Interesting!
Dugan EK
: Most, of course, are quite dreadful.
MamaLion27
: The public usually never gets to see the pilot until it is already
rejected by the powers that be!
Dugan EK
: (The recent ones, I mean.)
DIXC
: Many that make it are dreadful.
Beth
Kenobi
: I remember this one show they did when they showed parts of show
pilots. Some of teh more popular shows had mroe then one pilot, teh
first couple failing
MamaLion27
: I heartily agree with Dick!
GarlandGrl
: Me too!
Dugan EK
: I thought that -- as a premise that could be carried through a
long series -- Nelson's pilot had more going for it than Jeanette's. I
thought the device of having her being a busy-body in the mould of the
early Betty White show woul
Dugan EK
: would have gotten grating in a short time. (Life with Elizabeth --
that was the Betty White TV show.)
DIXC
: Did not know J. M. had a pilot.
Beth
Kenobi
: Niether did I
Dugan EK
: Yes -- Prima Donna. That's one of the things we're discussing
today, no?
DIXC
: Learn a lot in this CHAT.
DIXC
: Right.
MamaLion27
: Eleanor, wasn;t that the one with the boy singer?
Dugan EK
: She played a matronly My Little Margie -- always jumping to the
wrong conclusion and making a mess of things.
Dugan EK
: Yes, boy soprano.And Leo Durocher and Larraine Day.
GarlandGrl
: When in doubt, go to Eleanor's website... I've probably read
Jeanette's TV page 5 times and it still didn't stay with me. ;-)
MamaLion27
: I think I have that on a tape with some other little snippets of
old J&N shows.
Dugan EK
: She's gorgeous, of course, but it is a thin premise to build a
24-episodes-a-year series on.
GarlandGrl
: Gene wrote and produced it, you say?
Dugan EK
: Remember the Old Days? First 48 shows a year, then 30, then 24 --
now maybe -- what-- 15?
Dugan EK
: Yes --
MamaLion27
: I always thought Backyard had a stronger storyline with Jan
Clayton to add to the music and Chick Chandler is also good as the comic
relief along with the kids.
Dugan EK
: I personally didn't care for Chick Chandler -- but would gladly
have tolerated him in the show, considering the rest of it.
Beth
Kenobi
: I think that is to draw it out and keep people tuned to the tv.
Beth
Kenobi
: (the number of episodes I mean)
MamaLion27
: Both Jeanette and Nelson did well in guest shots and drama series.
Dugan EK
: Obviously, most successful sitcoms have a variety of characters to
appeal to a broad range of viewers.
DIXC
: Writing MANY good scripts was tough to do
Beth
Kenobi
: yeah
Dugan EK
: No, originally all radio shows and early TV shows did a new
episode each week. No reruns. They took 4 weeks off in August. New shows
started first week in September. Then TV got expensive -- shows like
Moonlighting were lucky to do
Beth
Kenobi
: They are also longer. Alot of shows are starting to go for an hour
Dugan EK
: 12 new shows a year. Now the season doesn't start until October or
November and reruns start in December while they film some more
episodes, the whole season starts over in March.
Beth
Kenobi
: I think only a few right now, but it seems to be catching on
MamaLion27
: The more people seem satisfied with mediocre plots and storylines,
the more mediocre scripts they will give them.
Dugan EK
: "No one every went broke underestimating the American
public."
Beth
Kenobi
: I think some people like to watch shows that don't make them use
thier brians or are repetitive with thier story lines (like Law and
Order)
Dugan EK
: Law & Order started "ripped from the headlines"
which meant ripped OFF from the headlines -- no need to do anything but
change the ending.
Dugan EK
: Back to Charley's Aunt -- does anyone want to suggest why Jeanette
never sang although the opportunity to do so was obvious?
Beth
Kenobi
: Thats what I mean. They use the same formula, so those who watch
the news usually can tell you 95% of the shwo
Beth
Kenobi
: *show
Beth
Kenobi
: Never saw that show so I have no comment on it
MamaLion27
: What drama shows and guest appearances that J & N did are
favorites ?
DIXC
: Was there a reason?
MamaLion27
: Oh, Eleanor knows more about Charley's Aunt, I think?
MamaLion27
: Are there any tapes of that show around, Eleanor?
Dugan EK
: No, I know nothing about Charley's Aunt -- except that Jeanette
stands in a room at a party with a piano and no one asks her to
entertain, which would be perfectly in keeping with the story. Did they
not want her to sing? If so, why
Beth
Kenobi
: What was that show, for me who knows nothign of shows pre-90s much
Dugan EK
: hire a singer instead of a famous straight actress? Did she have a
cold and asked to have a planned song cut? Who decided what?
MamaLion27
: That is puzzling. There must be an answer out there somewhere.
Dugan EK
: Charley's Aunt is a classic comedy play. Been performed maybe
100,000 times. Five film versions I think including one with Jack Benny.
This TV version had Art Carney. It was made into a musical,
"Where's Charley"" on stage and scree
Dugan EK
: screen, starring Ray Bolger. "Once in Love with Amy" is
hit song from musical version.
MamaLion27
: Did Turk ever cover that in his book?
Beth
Kenobi
: Thanks Eleanor
Dugan EK
: I think it was done recently on Bway or West End -- it is an
"evergreen" -- never fades.
Dugan EK
: I don't know if he discussed why she didn't sing -- I'll have to
go look!!! Good thought.
Dugan EK
: No, just checked. He mentions it, but no details.
MamaLion27
: It deserves looking into..I love mysteries!
Beth
Kenobi
: Perhaps she wanted to stay true to the story after constantly
having stories changed
Dugan EK
: No -- wouldn't have hurt the story a bit. She is a visitor who
sings. There is a piano. It is a party --
GarlandGrl
: I've gotta go! I'm a wee bit tired from the driving of late...
though I didn't even do most of it.
GarlandGrl
: Bye!
Dugan EK
: Bye, Ginny --
GarlandGrl
has left the room.
DIXC
: Bye:'(
MamaLion27
: I also want to ask Eleanor where the habit of calling wardrobe
mistresses "Mom" came about? Nelson addresses "The Desert
Song"wardrobe mistress as Mom in the prologue.
Dugan EK
: Of the major stage works performed live on TV, Nelson certainly
had the better showcase in Desert Song. In Charley's Aunt, Jeanette
played the real Aunt who doesn't arrive until the play is half over.
Dugan EK
: Nelson was the STAR. On "Mom," I was a wardrobe mistress
for 18 years and no one ever called me "Mom." I think that was
a bit of dialogue written for him -- to indicate a close, homey
backstage ambience.
Dugan EK
: Like they always call the doorman "Pop" in films, but
never in real life.
Dugan EK
: Of course, older men customarily called male children
"son"
MamaLion27
: No, I have heard this more than once so I thought it was a habit
backstage. I have also read it in some of my research material.
Dugan EK
: which was one piece of "evidence" that Jon Svvenson
offered to prove he was Nelson's son -- that Nelson had called him
"son" when he gave his autograph.
Dugan EK
: Well, it is possible that I missed it -- or I was so much younger
than those who might have been tempted that they thought better of it.
MamaLion27
: I also would like to know if any of the music besides that little
bit in Gale's harem song was prerecorded.
Dugan EK
: It doesn't appear to be.
MamaLion27
: I don't think it was which makes it all the more wonderful.
Dugan EK
: Yes -- I'll take live performances with all their flaws over the
most perfect prerecorded ones every time!!
MamaLion27
: It is too bad we have to watch it in such a distorted manner but
that is better than the alternative..not at all!
Dugan EK
: I agree!!
Dugan EK
: I was so thrilled to finally see it that I nearly turned
cartwheels!!
MamaLion27
: Dick, have you ever seen that video?
DIXC
: Remember in the beginning of D. S. when he started to slip as
he knelt down in the circle and just went on without a problem
MamaLion27
: I know Jessi has..right here at my house!
Beth
Kenobi
: :-)
MamaLion27
: Yes, he kept his composure beautifully!
Dugan EK
: Yes -- both N&J had stage experience -- just keep going as if
nothing happened and the audience will never know the difference.
Beth
Kenobi
: I remember that
Beth
Kenobi
: That and butterfly kisses.
Dugan EK
: Only because we can back up the tape and re-view do we spot these
errors. Otherwise, they fly by too quickly.
DIXC
: Great video for me for the music was sung so well and it is a
great show for Nelson.
MamaLion27
: Oh, romantic Jessi..so like her grandmother1
MamaLion27
: *!
MamaLion27
: One of my favorites. I watch it at least twice a month or more.
Beth
Kenobi
: Difently a good movie.
DIXC
: Gale was one of his best partners.
Beth
Kenobi
: This weekend you did
Dugan EK
: And his LONGEST partner!
MamaLion27
: They did seem to have more chemistry that any one other than
Jeanette.
Beth
Kenobi
: 13 years wasn't it
MamaLion27
: 14!
DIXC
: Which I felt was strong point of Nelson's life. Paxton, Ann,
Gale ! He was quite a HERO to all in his life.
DIXC
: In most artist life there are several kinds of breakups.
DIXC
: But not in Nelson's.
Dugan EK
: Well, he "broke up" with RCA and went to Columbia
records. And he changed agents sometimes. And he changed voice teachers
every few months!!
MamaLion27
: It reminds me of an old song.."Once in love with (Amy)Nelson..."
I always said Nelson loved people and the people loved him back!
Dugan EK
: (That song is from "Where's Charley?" which is the
musical version of Charley's Aunt --"
DIXC
: It was his respect for their great talent that he showed when
he worked with a great singer.
MamaLion27
: Yep!
DIXC
: Always felt she would have sung if a STRONGER song was in the
script.
Dugan EK
: I think something that sabotaged major TV careers for N&J was
that (a) early TV lighting was primitive and unflattering; (b) both
J&N were frankly middle-aged and needed flattering lighting.
Dugan EK
: There were YOUNG performers eager for the same roles -- and Rock
to draw the young audiences.
DIXC
: TV came awfully late in their careers.
MamaLion27
: And age discrimination was still a problem then particularly for
women.
Dugan EK
: Yes -- still is, but today Joan Collins can admit to 60+ and still
be thought glamorous. Then anyone over 40 was a hag.
DIXC
: Oportunities came along when they were in their fifties and the
were given to younger singers.
DIXC
: "they"
MamaLion27
: But until 1999 Nelson was still the top baritone in the polls..and
then someone decided to put Elvis ahead of him!
Dugan EK
: That's comparing apples and oranges--
DIXC
: Different sound which became more popular to the crowd.
MamaLion27
: I agree. But the majority rules..even if they have no idea what
they are voting for..!
Dugan EK
: Like comparing Nureyev and Astaire --
Beth
Kenobi
: ACK...Elvis. *grimaces* I got sick of him during his week of
"mourning" I guess. Nelson was Above him when it came to
talent, thats for sure.
DIXC
: Astaire was better to most of "US".
Dugan EK
: I'm saying that comparison is impossible --
DIXC
: Tate is different to different people.
MamaLion27
: I loved both of them..Nureyev and Astaire for what they each
brought to the dance.
Dugan EK
: Well, 6 o'clock --
DIXC
: "taste"
MamaLion27
: Yes, time is up. We will have to decide during the week what
topics are next!
DIXC
: Have to go now. Thanks for the nice visit.:-)
Beth
Kenobi
: How about a Nelson Movie?
MamaLion27
: We will have to take a poll!
Beth
Kenobi
: byes
Beth
Kenobi
: yes
DIXC
has left the room.
Beth
Kenobi
: send a list of suggestions and let people decide
Dugan EK
: What Nelson-only film haven't we done?
Beth
Kenobi
: I think the only one we did was Let Freedom Ring
MamaLion27
: Ithink we have covered most of them. But Balalaika is out there.
Dugan EK
: Haven't we done Chocolate Soldier? And Let Freedom Ring?
Beth
Kenobi
: So there is Northwest Outpost, Chocolete Soldier
Beth
Kenobi
: LFR but not CS
Dugan EK
: Oh,yes - Balalaika!
MamaLion27
: And Knickerbocker Holiday for the courageous!
Beth
Kenobi
: We covered all that he did with Jeanette
Dugan EK
: And that she did with him --
Dugan EK
: Well, nighty-night --
Dugan
EK has left the room.
MamaLion27
: Gotta go. Bye bye
MamaLion27
has left the room
Posted
on May 24, 2003
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